Popovkine et la politique spatiale russe: très intéressante interview

V.A.Popovkina Interview magazine "Space News» (№ 3, 2013)
03/14/2013 ::

- Vladimir, expired in 2012. Tell us what it was for the Russian space.

- 2012 is significant for many reasons. First, it was possible to reduce the accident rate. Although still not done without crashing. There was one accident. Still there was a contingency operation booster "Breeze" at start of the spacecraft "Yamal-402" in the final stage. But due to the fact that a well was made satellite, managed to compensate for inaccurate inference own engine. In this regard, according to various estimates, around 3 - 4 years reduced service life. Ultimately, it will depend on the stability of the spacecraft at the point of standing and operating costs of the body to maintain orbit.


Second, we have fulfilled all the international obligations of the manned space flight. It was the first full year when all security, especially for the delivery of astronauts, was on the Russian side. We coped with this task.


It is also necessary to note that the first time we had an open set of the cosmonaut. Behind the apparent simplicity of the event was very serious work, especially from a psychological point of view, the people who select candidates to the party, check documents, prepare and take the qualifying examination. All of this was begun in 2011 and completed in 2012, the selection from the previous eligibility requirements were only requirements for health. All others had to develop what is called a "from scratch." And the characteristics of the eight candidates who have been selected in the results show a "slice" of the people. Quite a different motivation than before. I have no doubt that their motivation, their training will show: we are on the right track.


- How often will now be a choice?

- The need to identify the needs of the plan. They will now have at least five years of preparation: two years - general space, three - in a group, and then you can assign a crew. In the presence of an existing unit, we closed the 2017 - 2018 years. The next set will be carried out taking into account the natural loss of the order of age, medical reasons, other reasons.


Third. We launched the "Canopus-V" - the first remote sensing satellite, is actually made in Russia while. After all, to have spoken about the "Resource-DK", who worked for two target dates, but he - hurt the Soviet era. "Monitor-E" - an experimental apparatus. "Canopus" same - a full working spacecraft ERS, which gives a very good picture quality, the accuracy of the binding to the terrain. This is not my opinion, but the opinion of experts who distribute pictures throughout the world. This is a welcome development.


Next. Commenced full use of our first scientific satellite "Spektr-R", continued research spacecraft "ICA-FCI". Overall, 2012 was the decisive factor in the choice of directions of research space. Were finally placed prioritety.Printsipialno agreed with the European Space Agency for cooperation in the field of planetary research. And there are three components: the exploration of Mars - the project "EkzoMars" with two missions in 2016 and 2018., Coordination of joint activities on the Moon and, finally, the study of Jupiter and its moons.


Fundamentally important development last year was the beginning of the active phase of construction of the spaceport East. Today we passed the point of no return: no way back. Almost at the final stage - development of project documentation for the starter, which provides technical and complex for RN series of "Soyuz-2". Launched a full-scale construction work, which involves several thousand people. All this suggests that in 2015 - this is a real life first start. If not, the fault will only Roscosmos or Spetsstroy. Other perpetrators can not be.


All necessary decisions taken by the President, the Prime Minister of Russia, in particular to simplify many of the procedures for the construction of spaceport. Brought fully funding approved changes in the Federal Target Program (FTP) "Development of Russian space centers for 2006 - 2015", clarified the Federal Space Program, which provides a range of activities. Thus, all done in order to properly organize the work.


And the last. At the end of 2012 was approved by the National Space Program of Russia. It identifies all the tasks of the Russian Space 2020 for Roskosmos this document is important, above all, the fact that the apparent levels of funding for the duration of the document.


Now we can begin to develop a complete concept of two federal programs: the Federal Space Program for 2016 - 2025 years, and the Federal Target Program of Russian space centers for the same years. This definition makes it possible to plan the continuation and completion of projects started, but do not end in 2015, according to the current PCF. We can keep them safely and to complete because the necessary funding was approved.


- This is the first time?

- Yes, for us is very important. We have guaranteed funding for years to come. There will be no need for 2014 - 2015 years. consider what the program expand and to complete any programs to reallocate the remaining funds.


And of course, it is much discussion on the structure of the Russian Space Agency, the industry as a whole. At the governmental decision-making, in which direction. It remains only for the first quarter of 2013, all to implement it.


- Vladimir, but failed to do?

- Unable to reach the fail safe.


- What is this?
- Makes it a lot. Introduced departmental quality control system. In fact, throughout, both the first and second co-operation, representatives of the agency work. Finalized regulations and the creation of expert groups to support the most important scientific development work and the serial production. Recovering the system in response to the military office of the President of the decree, which was signed two years ago. These and other measures have to give the result.


- Do I understand that the military representatives will monitor not only the military orders?

- Military units control the military orders, orders that are executed by the federal targeted programs, and, in addition, on a contract basis can control the projects that are carried out on commercial terms.


- Strategy for the Russian Space 2030 will be developed?

- Today it is called the "Basic Policy of the Russian Federation in the field of space activities through 2030 and beyond." This is the decision of the Security Council. Under it we have developed a plan of action to implement those fundamentals. The document "passed" all approvals and is located in the Government of the Russian Federation, where he will go to the Administration of the Russian President for approval.


- It will happen in a year?

- I think during the first quarter. But the main work was done in the past year: the public hearing and discussion at various levels, for example in Skolkovo.


- Let's talk about financing, its current level. This increase, reduce, re-orientation?

- All studies, requests and demands that were presented to the Federal Space Agency, have been satisfied and the Ministry of Finance and Ministry of Economic Development, with the support of the Government, Military Industrial Commission and two deputy prime ministers - Dmitry Rogozin Olegovich from the Federal Space Program and Vladislav Surkov Yurevich through GLONASS. Largely due to the interaction with them managed to defend the necessary amounts.


In essence, this is the level in 2015, because before then we have all of the programs were based deflators macroeconomic forecast, some peaks at the cosmodrome Vostochny peaks closing stages of the most important development projects. So do not complain.


- But what is the situation on the GLONASS? What a group of spacecraft location accuracy?

- Now in group 29 satellites, 23 of which - the operational use. Why is 23 and not 24? Because the system itself was originally created with very rigid cells in three dimensions. And in the event of device failure, or the need to avoid it, or reboot, we can not take his place quickly move the backup device. In mid-February we will fill one slot - and will again be in the grouping of 24 working satellites.


We on Earth are now ready to launch five vehicles and three missiles - one of "Proton" and two "Union." And when we estimate it will become clear that within the next two to three months should malfunction on the device, then we put in the preparation and launching a new unit. Now the plan in June - launch three satellites in the plane, where the oldest flying machines. But the decision will be taken only when needed replacement. If they continue to run smoothly, then start otodvinem right.


Now on the accuracy of the coordinates. It is determined by laying ephemeris correction for the spacecraft: the more laid, the greater the accuracy. And it depends on the actual measurements. The current situation is that all of our measuring tools are available only in Russia. And given the trajectory of spacecraft orbital inclination is it that we "see" only 1/7 of the loop, and the rest can not make any amendments. And most importantly - we can not accurately measure the coordinates of the device. To solve this problem, set the world a variety of augmentation of the system. They will check the integrity of a navigation field, and to accurately measure data by satellites. Now completing the installation of such a plant in Brazil. And in general, we have layout stations in the Southern and Western Hemisphere planety.Suschestvuet another question. Defense, unfortunately, delayed modernization Nuku (ground automated control system. - Ed.) For GLONASS, which would allow much more often and with a higher level of automation to lay these ephemeris. The question requires a final decision.


The third thing we need to do - to put into regular operation inter-satellite laser communications, which would pass from one spacecraft to the other necessary amendment, while it appears in the area of ​​the ground station.


Complex solution of these problems will in 2015 to catch up on the accuracy of GPS by 2020 to achieve guaranteed accuracy of 0.6 meters, and according to some estimates - is much higher. Given the global, regional differential systems that are now being created in Russia, and local, which are prescribed in the airport area, federal highways, the accuracy will be measured in centimeters.


- This is from the ground?
- Yes, with ground-based supplements, so-called. differential systems.


- Let's get down to business earth. Much has been said about the possible structural changes in the Russian Space Agency and the industry as a whole. There are specific decisions?

- We have our version, not yet approved by the Military-Industrial Commission, the Inter-Ministerial Commission led by Dmitry Rogozin, so the final structural change is premature. Our version provides integration of enterprises on purpose, the creation of five space and a rocket (for combat missile issues) holdings. Its review to be held in the first quarter.


- And what about personnel matters: business leaders, young professionals?

- Now there is a natural process - the gradual change of managers. We did not ask for all never change or rearrange. People find it more acceptable job, age, retire.


- Reserve the heads missing?

- Provision for last year was made public. Each position has two or three candidates. We have enough reserve.


- But objectively it are the people?

- Judge for yourself. For example, the Center Khrunichev the leadership came a man from the same talent pool.


Here, because we must also consider the appointment procedure. In the federal state unitary enterprises is a competitive process that considers several candidates. In considering them are sometimes found that a person standing in the reserves, does not fit the job. Not have to appoint the head of the cadre.


In joint stock companies Roscosmos submits proposals on candidates, but they agree Rosimushchestvo, Economic Development, and the Military Industrial Commission (MIC) and the Office of the President. And the defense industry and the Administration of the President shall have a casting vote. It so happens that we choose someone else.


When you select a leader at numerous factors: status and future tasks of the enterprise, the ability of the applicant to effectively address, etc.


- What is the situation with the involvement of young professionals?

- Young professionals interested in today, and this is understandable, wages and housing. In addition, of course, interesting work. And it is in the space industry itself is interesting. And if he came to us in the industry, it is interesting to work for him already. Were housing and wages.


In the past year we have completed TsENKI project to provide long-term loans for young professionals. It now provides for the down payment for housing, a partial or full payment of interest on the loan company. This project allows you to assign interns. Many of them have approved the project, and we begin to implement it.


Another aspect of this problem - the payment allowances. At the enterprise there allowances for young professionals, significantly increase the overall level of wages. But the "young professionals" cease to be people who have reached 28 - 30 years (in various companies in different ways.) And a good, qualified specialist who has attained some success in work, at that age suddenly starts getting less than before. But the date of birth in the passport does not change ... So allowance - it is very slim, trim lever of influence.


We involve young people directly from leading universities, where many companies have their base departments. Space cooperation is mainly concentrated in and around Moscow, Samara, Yekaterinburg, Krasnoyarsk and St. Petersburg. In all of these cities have high schools that prepare professionals for our businesses. Chairs in their heads, as a rule, the general or principal designer. And with a 3 - 4-year undergraduate education students actually use those facilities. It is necessary to make sure that during the study student stuck with the company, and the question where to work after graduating from university, institute, did not arise.


We complete the training and sign an agreement in February to create a consortium of universities, which will include all "our" schools and the parent company. The main task of the consortium - developing common requirements for training. To help enterprises Decide what specialists they need, and the universities - so that they can provide. The dialogue we get the required specialized professionals, who will not have to retrain.


Especially important is the training of the 1st and 2nd years, when laid on knowledge of general academic subjects, the basis by which a young person can continue to succeed in school. In order to avoid a situation where, for example, laid the foundations for the study of languages ​​that will not claimed. And two years will be wasted.


During the first two years of training, we need to understand the tendency of man to the profession in the field of space industry. If he has a penchant for programming, it is probably advisable specialization in management systems of launch vehicles and spacecraft, if the math - that in strength calculations. Therefore, we want to arrange the students in the first courses were free to move from one specialty to another, and as a result make for themselves the right choice. Such a move would allow the possibility of more fully exploit the potential of each. After all, proved that when the student learns with pleasure, learning efficiency is much higher.


We need economists to work on our businesses, lawyers in the field of international space law and insurance. And these professionals must be prepared.


Now we are creating regional centers for space services. It was found that the use of experts in the field of space activities is preparing only one university - Moscow State University of Geodesy and Cartography, and then only in limited quantities. We want to coordinate with the Ministry of Education training issue in this high school group on government contracts, which will train specialists from the contracts. But after graduation, they must return to their regions and in the field to preach, how to use satellite imagery, communications, navigation, and other space services.


Leaders of each enterprise sector understands that young people - this is their future. In the course of working in enterprises significantly rejuvenation groups. For example, during recent visits to D. O. Rogozin VNIIEM, RSC "Energia" could see a lot of young professionals. Who works well, getting enough good money. It's depends on how you feel about their work, how to work, how much you demand.


- What is the average wage?

- I think that we have come to the industry average salary of 35,000 rubles.


- If you do not mind, let's talk about our orbital constellation of spacecraft, their quantity, condition.

- Number of devices can be considered in different ways. For example, artificially increase their numbers and those considered in the grouping of spacecraft whose basic platform works, and the target hardware - no. Or vice versa - in various combinations. You can not mislead anyone, it's clear understanding that will not work.


The last two years we were to ensure that the output of the non-working satellites constellation. As a result, the number is "hooked."


At present we have 60 satellites socio-economic, scientific and commercial applications that are used for the intended purpose. But this group is a really functioning devices. All are used for their intended purpose. Eight units in reserve. Defense aids in this number are not included.


- Share plans for 2013.

- This year, we have to run five sets of communication ("Express-AM5", "Express-AM6", "Express-AT1", "Express-AT2", "Yamal-401"). Thus, we will do that the link on our site will be full and will be based on our machines.


The composition of the group of remote sensing in the first quarter will be running the "Resource-P." He is ready, passed endurance tests star sensors for five years. They did, in fact, over. There was a problem with the loss of manufacturing sealed enclosures for them so glued manufactured housing. But the production of sealed enclosures - one of the key things that will rebuild. In addition, there were problems with fluorine oxidation matrices. So I had to do a lot of improvements - and moved to the right start to minimize riski.V research in 2012, Roscosmos plan and was ready to launch a spacecraft "Bion", but at the request of the Institute of Medical and Biological Problems start was moved to the current year. Scientists fear freeze biological material, in other words - mice, because the landing was scheduled for November. Now launch is scheduled for April.


From scientific spacecraft, this year we plan to launch a small device "Lomonosov" for studying the ionosphere. It is manufactured in our facility in cooperation with MSU students.

This year we are recovering strongly meteorological group. Planning to launch a second "Electro-L" and the second "Meteor-M". And the group is complete. The first "Meteor" Now, after the phase of flight testing, has certain limitations. But we have carefully studied all the nuances, finalized all necessary. Are now ready to make a series of such devices and run them in a short time. And for 5 - 7 years, or even 10 years, as in the case of the "Electro-L" on the geostationary, not to return to their production. And over the years to develop a new spacecraft for new gruppirovki.Pilotiruemaya theme continues: we have in terms of four "Union" and four "Progress" to the International Space Station. And in the end, it is planned to launch multi-purpose laboratory module.


About GLONASS we said. Still planning to launch three "Runner." Their group to reach eight spacecraft will begin its real attempt of commercial use. There is an agreement with Gazprom, Rosneft, the Ministry of Transportation to monitor freight. In JSC "Messenger" came a new team of ambitious young people, which is engaged in the project and aims to make it commercially attractive.
They "put pressure" on our development machines, forcing them to simplify the apparatus, to reduce weight and thus reduce the cost parameters. Then the product is beneficial for federal customers. But it will be attractive to commercial customers and can themselves pay for, at least partially.


- Spacecraft, you have talked about, and others must be put in orbit by means of carrier rockets. We have an RN in service, there is unused - "Cyclone", "Space", "Start". What about this?

- The stock of missiles Roscosmos "Cyclone-2" is not. They may be in stocks Defense. We do not plan to let them.


I know there are two "Kosmos-3M", we offer the Ministry of Defence Dispose method start. Ready as their federal payload download and military and commercial. Decision on these missiles should be taken: either this year we are extending the warranty period and to start up, or next year just recycle.


As for the "start". Last year, we came back to this issue. Felt throughout the economy, and realized that while their launches economically disadvantageous. "Start" plays the same "Roars", "Union-2.1V", "Cosmos" easy "Angara". And today there is no decision as to the "Start" economically attractive, since it is very expensive unit cost of removing the goods. However, the agreement with Mitomo what they think as well as what can be cheaper. Will hold another round of talks with the Ministry of Defence on the free use of write steps. The disposal of solid motors - erosion - it is very expensive.


Use of the "Dnepr" is also being solved. Ukraine, which we must pay tribute, and opened all of its financial performance. We have agreed in principle on prices, costs of each party and, together with the Ministry of Defence sent the documents to the government. If approved, all arrangements should be formalized documented memorize in the form of contracts and agreements. Then, perhaps, the project "Dnipro" will be resuscitated. But for launches will be selective. In the missile uses toxic propellants, and we should be confident in terms of their reliability, extending the life of the literate and the implementation of all necessary measures, not formal, a stamp in the passport of the prolongation.


- And the prospect of "Proton" with boosters have?

- "Proton-M" will continue to be used. But we must remember that there are "razgonniki" were created on the basis of past developments. For example, the DM was developed in the 1960s for the lunar rocket N-1, so he laid a priori high accuracy, which are in demand now. "Breeze" - is, in fact, contained dispensing warhead ICBMs, which was created for specific tasks. Each RB has its limits and improve your limit loads. According to the "breeze" we have exhausted this limit.


"Breeze-KM", used today to "Roars", originally created as for other tasks. Therefore, it has many limitations.


"Frigate" NPO Lavochkin name - a former migratory module on the moon. Launching threes "GLONASS" we will do with the DM because of the need to provide high accuracy excretion. The more accurately derived spacecraft, the lower the overhead of moving to a given point of the orbit, which in turn leads to an increase in Lifetime.


All these boosters have their limitations, and none of them do not allow for management (reprogramming) from Earth. So we had to create a new upper stage - the oxygen-hydrogen (ACRS) heavy class. I guess he must be made to a specific milestone flight tests of heavy "Angara". The "Khrunichev" have experience in development of such a block for India.


ACRS must possess the qualities of the spacecraft. We need to be able to stop any process, re-pledge program and continue breeding. Must be reusable engine and command radio control system, in fact, like a spacecraft.


All boosters should be able to work with orbital repeaters, at least, to drop the so-called telemetry. "Shadow" areas. To do this, we complete the formation of the grouping of devices series "Ray."


- When the "Soyuz-2" will replace the "Soyuz-U"?

- "Soyuz-2.1A" will replace "Soyuz-U" in 2015, But the "Soyuz-FG" and will fly in orbit manned spacecraft, while the "Soyuz-2.1A" not gather statistics on the reliability necessary for manned flights.


- And with a new heavy missile defined? There are various information on the "Angara", on the other missiles ...

- To not miss reserve on "Rus" (still a lot of money was spent), this year we will complete the development phase of construction documents for the adaptation of the launch complex "Angara" in the East. But the decision to build it, we will be taken only after the start of flight testing in Plesetsk.
Everybody is interested in super-heavy rocket carrying capacity up to 120-130 tons. In this year's research "Highway" we do research to determine the shape of the super-heavy rocket, which is defined by three conditions. The first - the real needs of the masses, output to the reference orbit. Second - freight traffic that the results have not been the rocket to fly once every five years. The third - the base of its construction.


We have wide and good base in engine. The whole world wants to buy our engines. We must decide which components of the fuel will be used. Different options: oxygen-kerosene, acetyl, methane. Complex input data will be transferred to RSC "Energia", Khrunichev Khrunichev and "Samara Space - Progress." Roscosmos to get from each company in the face of its pilot project of extra heavy rocket showing the main scheme, cooperation, create timelines, cost. Then, at the Scientific and Technical Council of the agency and define choose the option that will actually meet the needs. But it can be any one of the three proposed options. It is possible that we will choose the best from each of the three projects, and depending on it will be determined the parent company and its co-operation. This project is very expensive, and we can not allow them to take only cooperation Khrunichev Center or only cooperation "TsSKB - Progress." It is a challenge in 2013


In 2014, we will draft, and in the Federal Space Program for 2016 - 2020 is defined, again taking into account the traffic and the mass of the payload, timing of the missile.


- Federal Space Agency is working closely with the RAS. What tasks are to be solved together with the scientific community?

- I do not see in this case is purely scientific issues. Delivery of scientific instruments, the various devices on the Moon, Mars, and so on - is not the Academy. Roscosmos must decide by what means and in what time frame to meet these challenges.


For example, the required manned missions to the moon to service those facilities that it wants to have a RAS. So we have to estimate the power for the manned version.


Mission to the moon is still only desirable and not acquired stringent requirements. Do they want to put on the moon RAS radio and optical telescopes, the stations on the properties of the soil, to ensure the presence of a man there to understand the frequency of these flights - that is their prerogative. They have to decide.


From the Ministry of Communications, we ask predict mass consumption communications spacecraft in geostationary orbit in 2020 or 2030 if it is 30 kW, then we need to bring back a spacecraft weighing 6 tons if 40 kW - then it is about 8 tons. And we have to do is not rocket under one task, and universal. To make it available commercially.


- Thank you, Vladimir, for interesting conversation. One last question: what would you wish yourself and amended in 2013, NC?

- First magazine. Edition would be willing to increase readership, interested in different aspects of space: obschepoznavatelnymi, special, historical ... It is very well manned hronologiruetsya theme. This is not in any other publication, and it will probably be sometime in demand.


For myself, I would like to implement conceived plans, the lack of accidents and keep your readers.